As a reminder, the purpose of this series is to show how teachers often twist, alter, or ignore Bible text in order to defend sinful behavior in themselves and their congregants. They believe that all Christians sin and will continue to sin for the rest of their lives. Of course, the Bible flatly contradicts that notion, but the teachers seem unable or unwilling to see this.
One of the most commonly used passages is the first verse of 1 John chapter two.
My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous.
These teachers usually quote the verse out of context in order to alter the real meaning. In order to interpret this verse, it’s crucial to understand the context. As I explained in my previous post, the first chapter provides a gospel message, an explanation of how to gain fellowship with God and eternal life. This happens when a person confesses his sin (1 John 1:9) and is cleansed of all sin.
So, in chapter two, when John says, “I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin,” he is indicating that the gospel he has presented has this purpose. He has provided this gospel so that his readers won’t sin.
That’s what acting on the gospel message does. It makes people holy. It provides the means to stop sinning, because the blood of Jesus cleanses from all sin (chapter one verses 7 and 9).
Does the blood of Jesus cleanse only some sin but not all? Of course not. It cleanses all sin, thereby making the believer holy and without sin. If they actually do sin, that would mean that they didn’t heed the gospel message that he provided, for that was its purpose.
Here is where the confusion arises. John then gives us this very scenario. What happens if someone actually does sin?
It is essential for us to identify the people in mind, and the pronouns John uses help us understand his meaning. Most people paraphrase the verse in this fashion.
“John wrote this so that we wouldn’t sin, but if we do, we have an advocate with the Father, so we’re forgiven.”
Or, “This was written so that you won’t sin, but if you do, you’re forgiven because of Jesus, your advocate.”
These are both inaccurate representations of what John is teaching. Remember, John gave them the message so that they would not sin, but if anyone does sin, that person is in the group that is described in 1:6, in darkness, needing a savior. Notice the change in pronouns in the chapter two verse, "I am writing these things to you that you may not sin. And if anyone sins ... "
John changes from second person, "you", to third person, "anyone". The one who sins is not meant to be part of the group addressed.
When John wrote, “my little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin,” he then assumes that his readers have accepted this gospel and are now Christians. If he had meant the following "anyone" to refer to his readers, it would have made more sense for him to say, "If any of you sins ... "
This is the reason he says that "we" have an Advocate instead of "he" has an Advocate. He is referring to someone outside the “we” group. The sinning person does not have an Advocate with the Father, because he is an unbeliever. The Christians are the ones with the Advocate, and this Advocate can be shared with the sinning person.
The person who sins could be an unbelieving member of the church or one who has left the congregation, so John is telling the Christians what to do in this situation. This brings chapter 1 verse 9 back into the light, part of the message that he gave to the readers. The Christians are supposed to share the gospel message of chapter 1, the good news of their Advocate. They are to communicate this message to those who are sinning.
The news of the advocate is to be shared, because He is the propitiation for the sins of the whole world, not just for the sins that John's readers had committed in the past. The Christians had their sins forgiven already, but it was important for them to announce the availability of this forgiveness to "anyone" who sins. This "anyone" would not be part of the “we” who had believed the message, but they would be considered part of the "whole world," anyone who is not assumed to be a Christian.
Therefore, the implication of the possibility of a sinning Christian in "that you may not sin" is removed, because John has apparently placed "anyone" who actually does sin out of the addressed group by the use of the third person pronoun.
The complete purpose of John's "message" is now clear. The first purpose is to make sure that the people in the audience receive the gospel, become cleansed from all unrighteousness, and sin no more. The second purpose is to encourage them, once they are cleansed, to give the gospel message previously stated to anyone who does sin.
Notice the "And" in "And if anyone sins ... " The word is kai in Greek. This connective makes the twofold explanation more clear. If John had meant for the second part of the verse to be applied to Christians who have already received the gospel, the connective would have been "but," alla or de in Greek.
“But” is an adversarial connective, one that is meant to introduce the result of an opposite action. The first part of the verse says that John intends for his reader to refrain from sin. If John were going to explain what would happen if the opposite of this occurred, he would have said, "But if anyone (or any of you) sins ... " He chose "and," which means "in addition to this." Therefore, the second part of the verse is the second portion of his purpose statement, something that adds a separate, new idea. It is not the consequence or remedy for the failure of the first idea.
He is saying that there are two purposes for his message. One, believe the message so that you will stop sinning. Two, share this message with people who are sinning, because Jesus died for them, too.
This interpretation provides a more reasonable flow into verse 3, an explanation of how to tell who is truly a believer, by an examination of their actions.
By this we know that we have come to know Him, if we keep His commandments. The one who says, "I have come to know Him," and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him; but whoever keeps His word, in him the love of God has truly been perfected. By this we know that we are in Him: the one who says he abides in Him ought himself to walk in the same manner as He walked. (1 John 2:3-6)
This is crystal clear. The person who actually sins is not a true Christian. This way, the audience is able to identify who actually needs this message, and the purpose can be put into practice. They can share the great advocate with the sinner so that he can be saved and stop sinning.
If actual Christians still sinned, then these three verses wouldn’t make any sense at all. The standard for telling a Christian from a non-Christian is obedience, so if sin continues in a Christian, then we would have to remove these verses from the text. They would be wrong.
The overwhelming testimony of the apostle John is that Christians are always obedient:
We know that no one who is born of God sins; but He who was born of God keeps him, and the evil one does not touch him. (1 John 5:18)
They are exactly like Jesus in their conduct:
By this, love is perfected with us, so that we may have confidence in the day of judgment; because as He is, so also are we in this world. (1 John 4:17)
And everyone who has this hope fixed on Him purifies himself, just as He is pure. (1 John 3:3)
And those who sin are of the devil and in slavery:
He that committeth sin is of the devil, for the devil sinneth from the beginning, For this purpose the son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil. (1 John 3:8)
Jesus answered them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, everyone who commits sin is the slave of sin.” (John 8:34)
I urge readers to evaluate John’s message and cast aside the words of teachers who hold to a form of godliness but deny its power (2 Timothy 3:5). I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin, and I hope you will accept it and carry this message to others, this message of the great Advocate who can cleanse anyone from all sin.
Next time, I will explore Romans chapter seven. When it comes to teachers grasping for excuses to sin, Romans seven is probably the most frequently misused passage in the Bible.
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I think Christians are still capable of sin. I mean, I still make mistakes and repent of them when I realize what they are and God works with me to change my ways.
ReplyDeleteBut for the most part I do agree with you, I think that God shapes us and molds us in our walk with Him so that we do become holy as He is holy.
But I don't think it's just an instantaneous thing where the moment we say a prayer, we are suddenly unable to sin, but that the Holy Spirit then enters us and teaches us to avoid temptation.
I'm not sure this is coming out the way I'm thinking, but I hope I'm being coherent. :P
i understand,and i have to say i agree with Kirsten.
ReplyDeleteKirsten and Tyler, I understand your point, but we have to understand that the Bible is our standard, and it says that Christians don't sin. I have no doubts that many people pray a prayer because of sincere conviction in their hearts, but that doesn't make them true Christians. It is repentance and complete surrender to God's will through dying with Jesus on the cross. As the Bible says:
ReplyDeleteFor if we have become united with Him in the likeness of His death, certainly we shall also be in the likeness of His resurrection, knowing this, that our old self was crucified with Him, in order that our body of sin might be done away with, so that we would no longer be slaves to sin; for he who has died is freed from sin. (Romans 6:5-7)
Once we die that spiritual death, we are raised to new life spiritually as well, and we are freed from sin.
Sometimes it takes time for people to complete that spiritual journey, but you must believe that it is possible. If you listen to the modern Bible teachers who tell you it isn't possible, you will never achieve the fullness of salvation and holiness that God offers. Without real holiness, many people who think they are saved will be in for a tragic surprise.
Pursue peace with all men, and the sanctification without which no one will see the Lord. (Hebrews 12:14)
I urge you both to consider the fact that God is powerful enough to do this work, and there is no reason whatsoever to explain why He wouldn't. It's there for you.
I have a question fo you, Mr Davis. How do you define sin in this case? I'm not asking because I want to argue on symantics. I actually agree with you to some extent, but I dont neccessarily believe that sanctification is completed on Earth. As Christians, we are free from the penalty of sin, and we are freed from the power of sin (we are given the authority to resist temptations of sin), but we are not free from the presence of sin.
ReplyDeletePhoenix, thank you for your comments. Knowing how much you long to serve God, I am glad to try to answer your questions and comments.
ReplyDeleteI plan to post about the definition of sin fairly soon, the Lord willing, so I hope you'll patiently wait for that.
When Paul tells us that we are free from sin, as follows:
and having been freed from sin, you became slaves of righteousness. (Romans 6:18)
But now having been freed from sin and enslaved to God, you derive your benefit, resulting in sanctification, and the outcome, eternal life. (Romans 6:22)
Paul didn't add "penalty of" or "power of." He said we're freed from sin, and the context indicates it's freedom from committing sin, as follows.
What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin so that grace may increase? May it never be! How shall we who died to sin still live in it? (Romans 6:1-2)
The entire chapter tells us that since we are completely free from sin, it would make no sense to commit sin. This is about practical, everyday holiness, not about freedom from penalty.
And John tells us that Christians don't sin: "We know that no one who is born of God sins; but He who was born of God keeps him, and the evil one does not touch him." (1 John 5:18)
And Jesus said that anyone who commits sin is a slave of sin:
Jesus answered them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, everyone who commits sin is the slave of sin." (John 8:34)
So freedom from sin is freedom from slavery to sin, in that we no longer commit it. If we do commit sin, that proves that we are slaves to it, as Jesus said above.
Please understand that in the next paragraph, I'm not attacking you. I think you're a wonderful person.
I agree that we are free from the power of sin, but if you agree to that, and you still sin, how can you say that you're free from its power? If you do sin, aren't you still under sin's power? Jesus seems to say you are (John 8:34), for everyone who commits sin is a slave of sin.
Why, as a Christian, would you ever want to sin?
That doesn't make sense to me. I never want to sin. And since I am free from the power of sin, and I love Jesus with all my heart, I will never sin again.
So, are you implying that everyone who is a Christian is perfect? That's not going to happen, as Jesus is the only perfect one. I'm patiently waiting for your definition of sin. As of now, what you've written sounds as if there are NO Christians at all, as we ALL do wrong (even if it's just a thought)every day (even if we didn't mean to). As a Christian, you don't "want" to sin, but that does not mean you will never get mad, never think something that's not right, never say something you should not have said, etc. As a Christian, you realize what you have done, said, or thought, sometimes just as you are doing it and sometimes not until after the fact. It is because Jesus died for our punishment of sin that we are forgiven (only to those who have accepted Him as their savior). Are you saying that you live perfectly every day because you are a Christian?
ReplyDeleteI will pause for now. I will see what you think "sin" is and then continue.
Anonymous, no I'm not saying that everyone who is a Christian is perfect. I'm saying that they don't sin. I have bad breath in the morning, I sometimes trip on the sidewalk, I spell words wrong, and I make all sorts of other mistakes. But I always obey God in every choice. I no longer sin.
ReplyDeleteYour comments regarding how Christians still do sin reflect what most people in the church believe, but they are not biblical. I have stated the biblical truths about this many times, and they are straightforward, so I am straightforward as well.
We know that no one who is born of God sins; but He who was born of God keeps him, and the evil one does not touch him. (1 John 5:18)
There are many other passages that indicate the same truth, so I have to believe what the Bible says. And this truth is reflected in my own life.
What I can't understand is why so many people are amazed, appalled, or offended by the simple truth that we can and do obey God. What's so difficult about that? He commands. We love Him, so we obey. There is nothing that can stop us from doing what He has called us to do.
Jesus said, "If you love Me, you will keep my commandments."
So, I keep His commandments.
You say that Christians don't want to sin, but if that's true then they won't sin, because they have the power not to sin. No temptation can overcome a real Christian.
No temptation has overtaken you but such as is common to man; and God is faithful, who will not allow you to be tempted beyond what you are able, but with the temptation will provide the way of escape also, so that you will be able to endure it. (1 Corinthians 10:13)
I hope to get to post the biblical definition of sin soon.
OK. Wait a minute, this is not the anonymous above this is someone else and I REALLY disagree with you Mr. Davis.
ReplyDeleteSince you are using verses I will too:
Matthew 6:12 and forgive us our debts as we forgive our debtors.
(why ask forgiveness if we are perfect?)
Romans 12:2 Do not conform to the pattern of the world, but be transformed in the renewing
of your mind...
(being transformed not automatically perfect because we are Christian!)
Oh and when God commands us not to do things like lying, stealing, lusting, and so on, why would he have all these commands (if you want verses on commands just start reading the bible) if we were not still prone to sin?
we are still human although we are forgiven and are not condemned because we do sin. (if we believe, Romans 10:9)
which fits in with Romans 6:6, For we know that our old self was crucified with him so that the old body ruled by sin may be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves to sin.
(I think that what the verse is saying is that we are freed and we can now go to heaven; we are forgiven no longer condemned to hell. Nothing in there says we will stop sinning and be perfect only Jesus is perfect!!!)
I really must disagree with what you are saying with this post and your comments Mr. Davis.
(me and quite a few others)
I am writing this to you out of love and hope that you will see how wrong it is to think that Christians are perfect. I agree with all the others who have posted here.
H
Hi Mr. Davis,
H is my friend and she can’t post stuff from her computer so I am doing it for her. I disagree with you as well, but I must admit that you have some very good points. I am confused about the not sinning after you are saved part.
Does that mean I am not saved because I still sin? I am very sure I am saved. I try to live my whole life for Christ’s glory, but I still sin and am aware that I sin because of the Holy Spirit. If Christians don't sin, then who is a Christian? I also don’t understand what the Holy Spirit is for when we are saved and don’t sin. He (the Holy Spirit) convicts us and makes us, well me at least feel guilty when I sin. I liked Kristen's response as well as Phoenix’s. Also are you saying that you don't sin ever now that you are saved? I thought Jesus was the only man like that. So, I am still kind of confused. I am not trying to come across as a know it all and stuck up. You just shook my beliefs a little.
M
MCH
M & H, I understand your disagreement. I hear comments like yours all the time, so I'm used to it. Yet, I think your belief is the one that is wrong, and your disagreement is not really with me. Your disagreement is with the Bible. You haven't addressed the very clear passages I have quoted.
ReplyDeleteFirst, H wrote, "Nothing in there says we will stop sinning and be perfect only Jesus is perfect." If you're talking about Romans 6, it does talk about not sinning, as Paul wrote in the first two verses, "What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin so that grace may increase? May it never be! How shall we who died to sin still live in it?"
Paul also wrote in that chapter, "For sin shall not be master over you, for you are not under law but under grace."
Yet, any commission of sin makes sin master over you, as Jesus said, "Truly, truly, I say to you, everyone who commits sin is the slave of sin." (John 8:34)
So only those who have stopped sinning are no longer slaves of sin.
And, H, you keep using the word "perfect." I never said I was perfect or that all Christians are perfect. I said that Christians don't sin. I make lots of mistakes. I make spelling errors, I spill things, etc. If you mean "perfectly sinless," then I will say that I am, but you wrote, "only Jesus is perfect!!!" With such a strong emphasis (three exclamation points), I assume you can back that up with Scripture. While I agree that Jesus is likely the only one who never sinned, I can't see where it says that we can't be like Him after we become saved. In fact, the Bible clearly says we are like Him.
By this, love is perfected with us, so that we may have confidence in the day of judgment; because as He is, so also are we in this world. (1 John 4:17)
And, as I have quoted several times, the Bible clearly says that true Christians don't sin:
We know that no one who is born of God sins; but He who was born of God keeps him, and the evil one does not touch him. (1 John 5:18)
Now regarding Matthew 6:12, first, Jesus taught His disciples at that time to pray that way. This was before Pentecost, before the coming of the Holy Spirit, a time when His followers were still under the Law. Without the Holy Spirit, they couldn't be under grace, the time when they could be regenerated and freed from sin. So, I don't believe Christians under the new covenant are meant to pray that prayer.
Tell me, since Jesus taught them to pray this prayer, do you think He would have prayed it personally? Would Jesus have said "forgive us our debts"? He didn't sin, so why should He? And since we are now like him (1 John 4:17), if we pray it, are we really confessing sin?
It's a simple formula. If Jesus prayed it, and He didn't sin, then such a prayer doesn't prove sin in the one praying. If He wouldn't pray it, then since we're like Him now under the new covenant, then we shouldn't pray it either.
Regarding Romans 12, a renewing of the mind is an on-going process, but that doesn't mean the people are sinning. Sin is disobeying a command that you know or should know. Renewing the mind is learning "so that you may prove what the will of God is, that which is good and acceptable and perfect."
The church is given many commands, but that doesn't mean that everyone receiving the commands is a true Christian. Every church has false professors of the faith within. Paul gives many commands to the churches, but then often gives a warning that disobeying the commands means that you won't go to heaven. For example, after giving a list of commands in Galatians 5, Paul concludes with, "of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God." (Galatians 5:21)
So, even though Paul was writing to churches with specific commands, it's clear that he knew that those who disobeyed weren't true Christians, and they would go to hell.
Finally, H, you wrote, "I am writing this to you out of love and hope that you will see how wrong it is to think that Christians are perfect."
I will change my mind if you give me a good biblical reason to change it. So far, you haven't. And I am writing this in love and hope that you will see that the Bible says very clearly that Christians don't sin, and that you will decide to obey God in all His commands. I hope that you will believe that God is not so weak that He cannot not make you holy. I hope that you will see that if you really love Jesus, you will obey Him, as He said, "If you love me, you will keep My commandments." (John 14:15)
M, the Bible says that the Holy Spirit convicts unbelievers of sin, not believers.
"And He, when He comes, will convict the world concerning sin and righteousness and judgment; concerning sin, because they do not believe in Me." (John 16:8-9)
There is no place in Scripture that says the Holy Spirit convicts Christians of sin.
You say that you're very sure you're saved. But how do you know? The Bible gives the only way to know that you're saved, and that's whether or not you obey God.
By this we know that we have come to know Him, if we keep His commandments. The one who says, "I have come to know Him," and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. (1 John 2:3-4)
Being convicted of sin by the Holy Spirit is not a sign of salvation. It's exactly the opposite, as I showed earlier. It's the Holy Spirit's loving way of telling you to come to faith and be cleansed from all sin (1 John 1:9).
Yes, M, I am saying that I no longer sin after being saved. I used to be a terrible sinner, but after Jesus cleansed me from all sin, I have stopped sinning.
I can't understand why people are so shocked and amazed by this. The Bible teaches it. I love Jesus. So why would I sin? It doesn't make sense.
I will pray for both of you that you will understand and believe what the Bible teaches. I'm sure you have had pastors and teachers telling you the things you believe, but they are not telling you the truth. They believe in a form of godliness, but they deny its power (2 Timothy 3:5). The truth of the gospel is that God is powerful enough to make you holy. He is not the weak God that many portray.
May God help you see these things.
Be encouraged everyone who believes! Be full of the Spirit, by whom the faithful have mortified the deeds of the flesh with its lusts and passions.
ReplyDeleteIf you think you still sin, and still fell the Holy Spirit's presence, be encouraged, for God desires to bring your salvation from sin to completion. Ask Him, "What do you want God? Do you want me to continue in sin?" He will undoubtedly speak to your heart, saying that He desires you to be completely free from sin itself, not just released from the consequences of sin. He is there for you, because He is ready and able to kill the flesh which holds you in bondage to sin. Then once sin is removed, He lives inside you and shapes your inner person to reflect the image of Christ.
If you think you still sin, do not be afraid to believe in the power of God to save you from it. For Christ died a bodily death, in his flesh, so that you may receive His death upon yourselves; so that your flesh can die as well. This is necessary for all, because if one denies sin completely, that person does not have the power to remove the sin that is in the body, for to do that he or she would have to kill the body. For this reason Christ died, that all who believe may also die by receiving His death, and not only receive forgiveness (which was provided to Jews by the Law), but also be freed from bondage to sin. This death that can be received is not figurative, but literal, for Christ's death was literal. This is the miraculous power of the Gospel, which can free you from sin.
For anyone who believes, he or she has the power to experience the Gospel, which will literally bring death to the flesh that keeps someone in sin. Do you desire to be free from sin? The Holy Spirit is ready to see that your body is crucified through Christ's death; nevertheless, you shall still live, for Christ was raised from the dead, and lives now, and shall live in you through His Spirit.
Be strong in your faith in God if you think you still sin. Deny all sin completely, and seek the Lord in secret, and He will reward you in secret delivering you from sin itself. Do not be afraid to embrace the power of the Gospel.
The love of God has provided everything for us who believe to walk in the way that is straight and narrow. Rejoice, for He is strong and mighty to save!
Grace and peace to all who believe,
and hello Mr. Davis.
- Daniel Montalvo
Daniel, thank you for that comment. It's true and helpful, and also an encouragement to me.
ReplyDeleteMr. Davis,
ReplyDeleteI have been looking over some of your posts and have been intrigued by much of your reasoning. In fact I agree with more than I would have though of it. Indeed, much of your exposition of the scripture seems good and true. However, there are a few things initially in particular that I want to point out.
You seemed to make a big issue about the word 'and' versus 'but' in 1 John 2. I will admit I do not know greek and so cannot argue from the original language. However, I looked up that passage in four or five trustworthy english versions and there not a consensus of translation. Half use the word 'but' and the other half use the word 'and'. It seems to me that your argument fails substantially when the various english versions are compared with each other. Perhaps you will explain this away by saying you studied the greek and they are almost all wrong. It will take a lot to persuade me of that though. I'm not very ready to believe you are somehow are right and all these hundreds of Bible scholars and translators have missed the mark.
I don't mean to sound like I'm blindly following anyone either. But majority opinion over hundreds of years needs to be carefully examined and not discarded on a whim.
Also, in regards to the post in general I had some initial objections spring to mind. I read somewhere that you hope to give an 'explanation' of Romans 7, so this probably will be covered in that. I hope so because Paul seems to state very clearly that he sins even though he doesn't want to. Are you ready to say Paul is not a Christian?
Romans 7:25 Thanks be to God through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, on the one hand I myself with my mind am serving the law of God, but on the other, with my flesh the law of sin. (NASB)
Feel free not to address the Romans passage till you have a chance to do a whole post, but that is just one example—just from that passage—of something that sticks out in my mind contrary to what you are saying.
Isaiah, I'm glad you're wrestling with this along with me and that you see some of my points. Thank you for that.
ReplyDeleteYour point is valid that the word choice is important (and versus but). I would never try to explain anything away. I look at the text to try to see exactly what it says, not what I want it to say. I haven't always believed what I teach. I used to believe exactly what the majority teaches on this topic, but the Scriptural evidence was overwhelming, so I had to change my mind.
It would be a lot easier, practically speaking, for me to accept the majority and not risk attack, but, far from explaining things away, I accepted what is there.
The Kings James and New American Standard say "and" instead of "but" because that is exactly what the Greek word says. The word is "kai." Kai means and. It doesn't mean but. It's as simple as that. I'm not sure how else to explain it. and I can't answer for why some translations chose the other word. Those are just the facts.
Yes, I hope to get to Romans 7 soon. I'm on a book tour now, so my time for blogging is very small. Thank you for your patience.
Mr. Davis,
ReplyDeleteThank you for your answer. After studying it more I don't think that your point is jeopardized by the ESV translation of the word 'but'. It seems to me that either way your point stands. I think it possible that the discrepancy in translation could be from different greek texts—once again I can't speak from knowledge on the subject, this is just speculation.
I think you have a good point about that passage though. The more I read it the more I am convinced that you are right in your exegesis of that passage.
However, I still do not agree with your broader application of the text (i.e., that Christians don't sin). For one we have the passage in Romans 7 but for another we have real life to look at. All people sin, even Christians.
As I see it you are simply redefining sin. I have read your post and your definition of sin in italics is pretty good. However, your reply comments belie that definition. You seem to be defining your failings as 'mistakes' whereas the Bible would call them sin.
When we do not love God as fully as we ought everyday we sin.
When we lessen or lose our zeal for God we are sinning.
There are countless ways to sin simply—rather, even—by doing nothing. In my perception you are simply calling them mistakes in order to fit them into your belief that Christians don't sin.
I admit that if 1 John 2 was the only thing the Bible had to say on the subject I would agree with your view. I must wait for you to explain how you deal with Romans 7 but the only way I can hold to your view is to completely ignore passages like that, or redefine sin as it seems you have done.
Respectfully,
Isaiah
Isaiah, I appreciate your comments, especially the fact that you have accepted an interpretation that you might not have believed before. That shows strength of character and spiritual integrity.
ReplyDeleteI will get to Romans 7 as soon as I can. It will probably be posted in several parts. I'm at a conference right now, and I will be speaking at several schools in the next week, so it will probably be a few days before I can get to it.
You say that real life shows that all people, including Christians, do sin. But real life doesn't prove that. Sin proves that a person is not a Christian, regardless of his verbal confession (1 John 2:3-4). I don't sin. My wife doesn't sin. And I know others who don't sin. So real life doesn't prove that all people sin.
I have not redefined sin, and I think my comments are in keeping with my definition.
You wrote, "When we do not love God as fully as we ought everyday we sin." I agree. In my comment I think I said that if we don't love as fully as God loves, that isn't necessarily sin. We are not God. We cannot do that. But anytime our love is less than it ought to be, that is sin. I agree.
You wrote, "When we lessen or lose our zeal for God we are sinning." Definitely. That is sin. No comment I made belies that truth.
You wrote, "There are countless ways to sin simply—rather, even—by doing nothing." Yes, that's so true. If we do nothing, when we know that we should be doing something, that would be sin. No comment I made belies that.
We can make mistakes without sinning. For example, if the speed limit sign that showed the drop in speed limit has been knocked down, and we don't slow down because we didn't know about the change, that is not sin. We didn't and couldn't know. But if we cover up the speedometer because we don't want to know our speed, then that is intentional ignorance born out of a desire to go too fast, and that would be sin.
So, I deny (in a friendly way) that I redefined sin or that my comments belie my definition. :-)
Again, I will get to Romans 7 soon.
Thank you for the respect and politeness you have shown in spite of your disagreements. If you could see the venomous comments I get that I don't publish, you might be appalled. Your comments are a breath of fresh air.